I Googled for something completely different, but found your page…and have to say thanks. nice read….

I think it is worth considering the fact that the bottom grappler in the guard position can’t strike the kidneys with his heels. This takes a tool away. There are other rules which change the game in a similar way.

I think it is worth considering the fact that the bottom grappler in the guard position can’t strike the kidneys with his heels. This takes a tool away. There are other rules which change the game in a similar way.

I am NOT putting down boxing or striking; I believe there is no “one art”, and that wisdom comes from all things. And a strike can change a fight in a heartbeat.

I am NOT putting down boxing or striking; I believe there is no “one art”, and that wisdom comes from all things. And a strike can change a fight in a heartbeat.

Let’s say fighter A is a great grappler, and B a great puncher. Everyone saw how using Gracie-type techniques worked most of the time. Once A gets inside B, they’re on the ground, and it’s over. So unless the first flurry of punches B has to fight through include a knockout, advantage to the grappler.

Now consider what happens when A and B have similar skills, i.e. both are good at striking and grappling. A is a marginally better boxer, B a slightly better grappler, and they are in similar physical condition.

When B takes A to the mat, B’s only advantage is if it ends in a KO or submission. While grappling from the top, B is expending at least as much, if not more, energy as A. If A is close enough to B’s skill to defend from being caught in a submission or ground-and-pound situation, he just has to bide some time.

Once the fighters are stood up, or A escapes, or the round ends, B will actually (remember we’re assuming similar condition levels) generally be in worse shape for expending energy on his attack than A did for defending against it.

On the other hand, every time A lands an extra combo, it wears down B more than it costs A to throw the strikes.

Over the course of a distance fight, between two similarly matched fighters, the trend will be for the grappler to get worn down sooner than the puncher, and the puncher to get a KO, or at least decisively win the later rounds.

As a note. I do believe that it is harder to become a good strike fighter, and it’s the speed factor. A slower grappler, wrestler, etc., can be taken down by a faster opponent, and still work defensively, working for reverses or even pins from the bottom. The counters don’t all require you to be faster or even more powerful than your opponent.

A strike fighter that is slower and/or less powerful than his opponent is a pretty much a punching bag. I’m not saying there’s no skill involved, just that past a certain level of technique, there’s no counter for speed.

I just don’t think the gap between striking skills (assuming conditioning and grappling skills are also close) needs to be large for the better puncher to have an advantage.

Let’s say fighter A is a great grappler, and B a great puncher. Everyone saw how using Gracie-type techniques worked most of the time. Once A gets inside B, they’re on the ground, and it’s over. So unless the first flurry of punches B has to fight through include a knockout, advantage to the grappler.

Now consider what happens when A and B have similar skills, i.e. both are good at striking and grappling. A is a marginally better boxer, B a slightly better grappler, and they are in similar physical condition.

When B takes A to the mat, B’s only advantage is if it ends in a KO or submission. While grappling from the top, B is expending at least as much, if not more, energy as A. If A is close enough to B’s skill to defend from being caught in a submission or ground-and-pound situation, he just has to bide some time.

Once the fighters are stood up, or A escapes, or the round ends, B will actually (remember we’re assuming similar condition levels) generally be in worse shape for expending energy on his attack than A did for defending against it.

On the other hand, every time A lands an extra combo, it wears down B more than it costs A to throw the strikes.

Over the course of a distance fight, between two similarly matched fighters, the trend will be for the grappler to get worn down sooner than the puncher, and the puncher to get a KO, or at least decisively win the later rounds.

As a note. I do believe that it is harder to become a good strike fighter, and it’s the speed factor. A slower grappler, wrestler, etc., can be taken down by a faster opponent, and still work defensively, working for reverses or even pins from the bottom. The counters don’t all require you to be faster or even more powerful than your opponent.

A strike fighter that is slower and/or less powerful than his opponent is a pretty much a punching bag. I’m not saying there’s no skill involved, just that past a certain level of technique, there’s no counter for speed.

I just don’t think the gap between striking skills (assuming conditioning and grappling skills are also close) needs to be large for the better puncher to have an advantage.

What seems to be emerging as ideal is a combination of boxing and grappling, with the knees and elbows of Muay Thai but not too many of the kicks– I can tell you from personal experience it’s a bad idea to be standing on one leg in front of a guy who wants to put you on your back. The footwork of boxing is perfect for setting up angles of attack, as well as transitioning to single- and double-leg takedowns in the middle of a combination. You can probably expect to see more and more champions using this formula.

I wouldn’t say that just anybody can become a “world class” grappler, but I would say that a pudgy guy who can’t walk without tripping over his own feet could in time become a very effective grappler, while his prospects in any striking art would be much more limited.

What seems to be emerging as ideal is a combination of boxing and grappling, with the knees and elbows of Muay Thai but not too many of the kicks– I can tell you from personal experience it’s a bad idea to be standing on one leg in front of a guy who wants to put you on your back. The footwork of boxing is perfect for setting up angles of attack, as well as transitioning to single- and double-leg takedowns in the middle of a combination. You can probably expect to see more and more champions using this formula.

I wouldn’t say that just anybody can become a “world class” grappler, but I would say that a pudgy guy who can’t walk without tripping over his own feet could in time become a very effective grappler, while his prospects in any striking art would be much more limited.

A person off the street, training 3 days a week 2hrs a day, would take about 5-8 years to become an excellent ground specialist. For example, on average it takes about 7-10 years to earn your Black Back in BJJ. (average) I know a person who trained 5 days a week 4 hours a day for 3 years and earned his purple, then trained for another years 4 days a week, and got his brown, it took him another year after that of serious time investment to get his black. He was considered, a fast black belt.

In striking there is really a very very shallow pool of ‘techniques’ you use, Jab, Straight, L-R Hook, L-R Uppercut, Overhand L-R, Inside L-R , R-L Knee, L-Low, mid high Kick, R-Low ,Mid, High kick. Thats about it , when it comes to competitive fighting. (maybe a spin kick or two) So less than 30 things you need to learn (technique) wise, in Ground fighting (JiuJitsu) there is easily thousands of things to learn, that are just methods. Both require you to learn the timing and application of the techniques.

I do agree however, that the sport has come full circle, like all things that go to a polar extreme. There was a time where Ground was all that mattered, people learnt to stuff it, and now you need to know what to do after. Which is great, cause thats what Mixed Martial arts is about.

If you can’t out strike them, take to the ground, if you can’t submit them, grind them, if you cant grind them, clinch them, if you cant clinch them, strike them…..

(if you can’t do any of those, your in for a bad night).

A person off the street, training 3 days a week 2hrs a day, would take about 5-8 years to become an excellent ground specialist. For example, on average it takes about 7-10 years to earn your Black Back in BJJ. (average) I know a person who trained 5 days a week 4 hours a day for 3 years and earned his purple, then trained for another years 4 days a week, and got his brown, it took him another year after that of serious time investment to get his black. He was considered, a fast black belt.

In striking there is really a very very shallow pool of ‘techniques’ you use, Jab, Straight, L-R Hook, L-R Uppercut, Overhand L-R, Inside L-R , R-L Knee, L-Low, mid high Kick, R-Low ,Mid, High kick. Thats about it , when it comes to competitive fighting. (maybe a spin kick or two) So less than 30 things you need to learn (technique) wise, in Ground fighting (JiuJitsu) there is easily thousands of things to learn, that are just methods. Both require you to learn the timing and application of the techniques.

I do agree however, that the sport has come full circle, like all things that go to a polar extreme. There was a time where Ground was all that mattered, people learnt to stuff it, and now you need to know what to do after. Which is great, cause thats what Mixed Martial arts is about.

If you can’t out strike them, take to the ground, if you can’t submit them, grind them, if you cant grind them, clinch them, if you cant clinch them, strike them…..

(if you can’t do any of those, your in for a bad night).