Comments on: The Jesus Quote You’ll Never Hear in Church http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church grep understanding Fri, 25 May 2012 02:15:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Mben-j00 http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church/comment-page-4#comment-258341 Mben-j00 Wed, 09 Nov 2011 17:27:00 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church#comment-258341 <p>The French philosopher Descartes is credited for a concept which to this day is considered matchless by most who have studied his work.  Although, he quickly deviates from his foundational belief, his foundation stands firm.  "I think therefore I am/exist" This is a loose translation in English, and yet it still continues to be the singular, undeniable truth according to logic.  Anything else is simply a theory, hypothesis, etc. With ease one can cast doubt upon any other statement made by a man; however, not one can shake this one.  Seeing that mankind has known but one obvious truth which is irrefutable and has been unable to prove anything else beyond a single doubt, one would presume that logic or reason could not govern over a man's life.  In fact it does not.  Each and every person on the planet who lives, breathes, walks and talks, does so by faith.  Our senses often deceive us.  We see things in a distorted manner based on distance, lighting and at times for reasons we know not.  We hear things that others don't .  We don't hear things that others do.  The list goes on.  Skepticists may have some very valid argument.  If we were to choose to become skeptics with our philosophy, we would find it nearly if not absolutely impossible to live by such beliefs, if we could even call them beliefs.  One is inclined to be skeptical in many things, but not in faith.  Skepticism is for reasonable things and since there are not many things which are undeniably reasonable, faith (i.e. trust or belief without reason) is exercised by all, on a daily basis.  How does one know for instance, that his or her car which has a combustible fuel system will not explode the next time he or she attempts to drive it?  Or how does one know that if he or she closes their eyes that they will be able to simultaneously take a step forward?  How does one know that an arm instead of a leg will not move after closing one's eyes?  How does one know that he or she is not simply a "brain in a vat"?  We don't know these things, and we can not know them with reason, or at least no one has proven them.  And yet, we do not live our lives accordingly.  We choose to believe things which are unreasonable and act on them every second of the day.  I used to wish to prove God's existence to others through logic and reason, and even to myself.  No more though.  God's love and existence is unreasonable.  The fact that he chose to suffer by offering himself, his son, to bear the pain of my sins... the fact that he would continue to forgive me and answer my prayers and give me comfort when I am in need is totally unreasonable, but I faithfully believe it to be true.  It was unreasonable to believe that my 4-year-old daughter would again receive breath to her tiny body after ten seemingly infinite minutes without breathing and without a heart beat, but still I faithfully prayed and believed that God would raise her up AS HE DID.</p> The French philosopher Descartes is credited for a concept which to this day is considered matchless by most who have studied his work.  Although, he quickly deviates from his foundational belief, his foundation stands firm.  “I think therefore I am/exist” This is a loose translation in English, and yet it still continues to be the singular, undeniable truth according to logic.  Anything else is simply a theory, hypothesis, etc. With ease one can cast doubt upon any other statement made by a man; however, not one can shake this one.  Seeing that mankind has known but one obvious truth which is irrefutable and has been unable to prove anything else beyond a single doubt, one would presume that logic or reason could not govern over a man’s life.  In fact it does not.  Each and every person on the planet who lives, breathes, walks and talks, does so by faith.  Our senses often deceive us.  We see things in a distorted manner based on distance, lighting and at times for reasons we know not.  We hear things that others don’t .  We don’t hear things that others do.  The list goes on.  Skepticists may have some very valid argument.  If we were to choose to become skeptics with our philosophy, we would find it nearly if not absolutely impossible to live by such beliefs, if we could even call them beliefs.  One is inclined to be skeptical in many things, but not in faith.  Skepticism is for reasonable things and since there are not many things which are undeniably reasonable, faith (i.e. trust or belief without reason) is exercised by all, on a daily basis.  How does one know for instance, that his or her car which has a combustible fuel system will not explode the next time he or she attempts to drive it?  Or how does one know that if he or she closes their eyes that they will be able to simultaneously take a step forward?  How does one know that an arm instead of a leg will not move after closing one’s eyes?  How does one know that he or she is not simply a “brain in a vat”?  We don’t know these things, and we can not know them with reason, or at least no one has proven them.  And yet, we do not live our lives accordingly.  We choose to believe things which are unreasonable and act on them every second of the day.  I used to wish to prove God’s existence to others through logic and reason, and even to myself.  No more though.  God’s love and existence is unreasonable.  The fact that he chose to suffer by offering himself, his son, to bear the pain of my sins… the fact that he would continue to forgive me and answer my prayers and give me comfort when I am in need is totally unreasonable, but I faithfully believe it to be true.  It was unreasonable to believe that my 4-year-old daughter would again receive breath to her tiny body after ten seemingly infinite minutes without breathing and without a heart beat, but still I faithfully prayed and believed that God would raise her up AS HE DID.

]]> By: RATIONALTHINKER http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church/comment-page-4#comment-257607 RATIONALTHINKER Tue, 26 Jul 2011 23:03:00 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church#comment-257607 <p>Daniel, don't listen to these foolish, brainwashed cult followers who try to appeal to intelligence with their cunning "logic". The Bible is a book of fairy-tales. It's fiction. End of story. And there's more morality in mother goose. It's almost a waste of time to try to convince believers that their tooth-fairy isn't real. That would mean admitting that when they die, they cease to exist. And they will fight with all their heart (not their mind) to try to keep themselves convinced that they will live forever in eternal paradise.</p> Daniel, don’t listen to these foolish, brainwashed cult followers who try to appeal to intelligence with their cunning “logic”. The Bible is a book of fairy-tales. It’s fiction. End of story. And there’s more morality in mother goose. It’s almost a waste of time to try to convince believers that their tooth-fairy isn’t real. That would mean admitting that when they die, they cease to exist. And they will fight with all their heart (not their mind) to try to keep themselves convinced that they will live forever in eternal paradise.

]]> By: Anthony Galli http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church/comment-page-3#comment-257564 Anthony Galli Sun, 24 Jul 2011 10:25:00 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church#comment-257564 <p>I'm glad you don't believe in fairytales (at least, that's how I read your opening statement). Of course, much of the supernatural elements in the Bible can be called fairytales. Really, a magical God who rules the world like a monarch, has a personal will/desires, demands absolute obedience and obeisance, and is "him"self anti-nomian in morality (it's right because I say so, I have the final say, as I'm good by nature, thus making goodness a tautology) and any such anthropomorphic religious statements (taken as appropriate, if not literally true, ways to describe spiritual experience/reality) can be said to be childish notions indeed. So with all the appropriate interpretation, which I don't doubt is a valid reading of scripture, I'm not moved by it.</p> I’m glad you don’t believe in fairytales (at least, that’s how I read your opening statement). Of course, much of the supernatural elements in the Bible can be called fairytales. Really, a magical God who rules the world like a monarch, has a personal will/desires, demands absolute obedience and obeisance, and is “him”self anti-nomian in morality (it’s right because I say so, I have the final say, as I’m good by nature, thus making goodness a tautology) and any such anthropomorphic religious statements (taken as appropriate, if not literally true, ways to describe spiritual experience/reality) can be said to be childish notions indeed. So with all the appropriate interpretation, which I don’t doubt is a valid reading of scripture, I’m not moved by it.

]]> By: A B http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church/comment-page-4#comment-257536 A B Thu, 14 Jul 2011 06:31:00 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church#comment-257536 <p>If this is an atheist utilizing satire in the form of mindless psycho-babble and the peddling of salvation found common from Christian missionaries, then you've clearly fooled me. Otherwise, take your demeaning and oppressive message off the internet and to the streets, where you will be properly put in place.</p> <p>I find it hilarious how appeals to international peace from a "charming and very intelligent" politician is the "anti-Christ" and all of the corrupt and sexually deviant religious ideologues rolling in ink covered paper are the guardians of our spiritual path to redemption.</p> <p>An eternity in Hell? How is that any different from everlasting life? I look forward to the day that I die, sometime in the year 2025, long after the uneventful doomsday prophecies but around the time when the meme which has infested your brain finally gets a hold of a device strong enough to extinct humanity, and does so.</p> <p>My solace comes from the fact that we will have destroyed ourselves long before we can hope to disrupt other sentient life forms. And yet there have been and will continue to be sentient creatures who will enjoy the highest peaks of peace and singularity. And when the universe finally succumbs to an eternal heat death, "creation" will rebound and it will happen once again. Frankly, "nothing" is naturally unstable, so there will always be "something" rather than "nothing". Another insightful spiritual gift from a material and pseudo-objective science called Quantum Physics.</p> If this is an atheist utilizing satire in the form of mindless psycho-babble and the peddling of salvation found common from Christian missionaries, then you’ve clearly fooled me. Otherwise, take your demeaning and oppressive message off the internet and to the streets, where you will be properly put in place.

I find it hilarious how appeals to international peace from a “charming and very intelligent” politician is the “anti-Christ” and all of the corrupt and sexually deviant religious ideologues rolling in ink covered paper are the guardians of our spiritual path to redemption.

An eternity in Hell? How is that any different from everlasting life? I look forward to the day that I die, sometime in the year 2025, long after the uneventful doomsday prophecies but around the time when the meme which has infested your brain finally gets a hold of a device strong enough to extinct humanity, and does so.

My solace comes from the fact that we will have destroyed ourselves long before we can hope to disrupt other sentient life forms. And yet there have been and will continue to be sentient creatures who will enjoy the highest peaks of peace and singularity. And when the universe finally succumbs to an eternal heat death, “creation” will rebound and it will happen once again. Frankly, “nothing” is naturally unstable, so there will always be “something” rather than “nothing”. Another insightful spiritual gift from a material and pseudo-objective science called Quantum Physics.

]]> By: Rich47jack http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church/comment-page-4#comment-254945 Rich47jack Sat, 02 Apr 2011 15:05:00 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church#comment-254945 <p>I was tempted to jump on the band wagon to straighten out the illogical thinking of Daniel Miessler above and the arrogant stupidity of James_Smith, but I see that several of you have corrected Daniel. James on the other hand is obviously too intelligent to believe in God. He proves this by his vacuous statement. That was 11 months ago and much has happened in the world since. Well James_Smith, I am not going to try to change your mind but just warn you that things are getting ready to happen in the world that were predicted both by Daniel the prophet, and in the Book of Revelation. It all commences with the leader of the NWO signing or enforcing a peace treaty with Israel for 7 years. That person is commonly called the "anti-Christ." He will be charming and very intelligent, and will have had a miraculous recovery from a mortal wound. About 7 years from that event Jesus will be returning to fulfill his role as the Goel. He completed the "kinsman redeemer" obligation on the cross 2000 years ago, he needs only to complete the "avenger of blood" duty. You don't really want to be one of the people standing against him when he returns. When you see these things happen you can still acknowledge him as your Lord and repent. I really don't care if you believe what I am telling your now. Just remember it, it may save you from an eternity in Hell.</p> I was tempted to jump on the band wagon to straighten out the illogical thinking of Daniel Miessler above and the arrogant stupidity of James_Smith, but I see that several of you have corrected Daniel. James on the other hand is obviously too intelligent to believe in God. He proves this by his vacuous statement. That was 11 months ago and much has happened in the world since. Well James_Smith, I am not going to try to change your mind but just warn you that things are getting ready to happen in the world that were predicted both by Daniel the prophet, and in the Book of Revelation. It all commences with the leader of the NWO signing or enforcing a peace treaty with Israel for 7 years. That person is commonly called the “anti-Christ.” He will be charming and very intelligent, and will have had a miraculous recovery from a mortal wound. About 7 years from that event Jesus will be returning to fulfill his role as the Goel. He completed the “kinsman redeemer” obligation on the cross 2000 years ago, he needs only to complete the “avenger of blood” duty. You don’t really want to be one of the people standing against him when he returns. When you see these things happen you can still acknowledge him as your Lord and repent. I really don’t care if you believe what I am telling your now. Just remember it, it may save you from an eternity in Hell.

]]> By: Eric http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church/comment-page-3#comment-254659 Eric Fri, 04 Feb 2011 02:29:00 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church#comment-254659 <p>Wow this guy has AWFUL grammer and spelling. He also has a VERY poor idea of the foundations of Christianity. Please do not judge the atheistic community based on this guy's response. He does not represent us, nor do his views represent ours.</p> <p>PS. I also strongly believe that a debate runs much better when both parties agree NOT to assert the others' belief's. Instead of saying you believe this crazy thing and that (which often causes argument), just ask and then follow up.</p> Wow this guy has AWFUL grammer and spelling. He also has a VERY poor idea of the foundations of Christianity. Please do not judge the atheistic community based on this guy’s response. He does not represent us, nor do his views represent ours.

PS. I also strongly believe that a debate runs much better when both parties agree NOT to assert the others’ belief’s. Instead of saying you believe this crazy thing and that (which often causes argument), just ask and then follow up.

]]> By: Lawrie http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church/comment-page-3#comment-254455 Lawrie Sat, 15 Jan 2011 16:48:00 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church#comment-254455 <p>You know, it really helps when you are "discussing" a topic with someone to actually "stay on topic". Did you want to argue evolution or did you wish to discuss the passage above that was presented by the author?</p> <p>I'm not sure where the 2000 years thing you stated comes from, clearly you are quoting some type of what you believe to be Christianity. Ok.</p> <p>Also it is physically impossible to "prove" something outside our physical rhelm. The "Big Bang" Theory is just that a theory AND has been put aside at this point in history my MANY reputable scientist. Evolution is also a Theory started by a man who stated difinitively that many "inferior races" would die out and that the superior ones...white would survive.</p> <p>There is way more historic, physical, etc evidence for an existence of God. "There is also a way that seems right to a man that leads to death".</p> You know, it really helps when you are “discussing” a topic with someone to actually “stay on topic”. Did you want to argue evolution or did you wish to discuss the passage above that was presented by the author?

I’m not sure where the 2000 years thing you stated comes from, clearly you are quoting some type of what you believe to be Christianity. Ok.

Also it is physically impossible to “prove” something outside our physical rhelm. The “Big Bang” Theory is just that a theory AND has been put aside at this point in history my MANY reputable scientist. Evolution is also a Theory started by a man who stated difinitively that many “inferior races” would die out and that the superior ones…white would survive.

There is way more historic, physical, etc evidence for an existence of God. “There is also a way that seems right to a man that leads to death”.

]]> By: Professeryoung http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church/comment-page-3#comment-254152 Professeryoung Sat, 20 Nov 2010 20:45:00 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church#comment-254152 <p>Miss Lawrie, I am sorry dear but i am going to have to start with disagreeing with your novel and your argument. Is your Lord/God/Messiah decietful and aim to missguide us mere mortals? We know from the teaching of Edwin Hubble that the stars are moving away from each other from a central position. Making the big bang scientific fact. Futhermore we can not ignore the supporting evidence for evolution and how our species came to be. Take a look at children playing and your can see apart from a little jeolusy they love and care for one another and have not required bronse age scribblings to behave in this manner. In summary This novel that you hold in high regard has no knowledge of the origins of the planet or the coming to be of man and can not claim to be the sourse of any moral bahavior from our species. So may i ask the question is one more or less informed from excepting any thing in this book as a good foundation to base thier lives around? If you look at how long humans have been on the planet at least a hundred thousand years. To be a christion you have to believe the following. For 98 thousand years we lived and died in a missrible exsistance. A high percentage of which died in child birth. Life excpetancy of around 20-25 dieing of their teeth and gums. Famine, Plauge and hunger very much a part of every day life. Wars, Killing and genoside. Rape tourcher and suffering. Mysterious events like volcanos, tidle waves and earth quakes could not be explained. All this for 98 thousand go on with heavens consent. Then two thousand years decides thats enough and it is time to intervein. The best plan that could be thought of was to have another human sacrafice in far flung reigion of plastine. Where littlecould read or write. Don't lets appear to the chinese who could who could read and study philosophy. Lets go to the desert for another revelation. This is stupidity at its climaxe! It cant be believed by any thinking person and this message still hasn't read people in China and wont be believed when it dose. The human mind and a parachute have one thing in common. They both have little effect unless they are open.</p> Miss Lawrie, I am sorry dear but i am going to have to start with disagreeing with your novel and your argument. Is your Lord/God/Messiah decietful and aim to missguide us mere mortals? We know from the teaching of Edwin Hubble that the stars are moving away from each other from a central position. Making the big bang scientific fact. Futhermore we can not ignore the supporting evidence for evolution and how our species came to be. Take a look at children playing and your can see apart from a little jeolusy they love and care for one another and have not required bronse age scribblings to behave in this manner. In summary This novel that you hold in high regard has no knowledge of the origins of the planet or the coming to be of man and can not claim to be the sourse of any moral bahavior from our species. So may i ask the question is one more or less informed from excepting any thing in this book as a good foundation to base thier lives around? If you look at how long humans have been on the planet at least a hundred thousand years. To be a christion you have to believe the following. For 98 thousand years we lived and died in a missrible exsistance. A high percentage of which died in child birth. Life excpetancy of around 20-25 dieing of their teeth and gums. Famine, Plauge and hunger very much a part of every day life. Wars, Killing and genoside. Rape tourcher and suffering. Mysterious events like volcanos, tidle waves and earth quakes could not be explained. All this for 98 thousand go on with heavens consent. Then two thousand years decides thats enough and it is time to intervein. The best plan that could be thought of was to have another human sacrafice in far flung reigion of plastine. Where littlecould read or write. Don’t lets appear to the chinese who could who could read and study philosophy. Lets go to the desert for another revelation. This is stupidity at its climaxe! It cant be believed by any thinking person and this message still hasn’t read people in China and wont be believed when it dose. The human mind and a parachute have one thing in common. They both have little effect unless they are open.

]]> By: Kludke2003 http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church/comment-page-4#comment-253771 Kludke2003 Fri, 10 Sep 2010 18:20:00 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church#comment-253771 <p>Congratulations you among many have finally taken this statement literally. It is called taking things out of their context. Actually using part of a book to define the whole thing. Why not, quit your site, and actually sit down and read the whole thing. You will find somebody(Jesus) who loves you.</p> Congratulations you among many have finally taken this statement literally. It is called taking things out of their context. Actually using part of a book to define the whole thing. Why not, quit your site, and actually sit down and read the whole thing. You will find somebody(Jesus) who loves you.

]]> By: James_Smith http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church/comment-page-4#comment-244438 James_Smith Sat, 17 Apr 2010 18:50:43 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church#comment-244438 <p>Things like this simply show the inconsistencies and illogical teachings of the bible and other religions. Is it any mystery why religion is so inconsistent and illogical.<br><br>Every religion and sect cherry picks" the text from their "holy books" so it teaches what they already want to hear. <br><br>Yes, all religions are arrant BS.</p> Things like this simply show the inconsistencies and illogical teachings of the bible and other religions. Is it any mystery why religion is so inconsistent and illogical.

Every religion and sect cherry picks” the text from their “holy books” so it teaches what they already want to hear.

Yes, all religions are arrant BS.

]]> By: James_Smith http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church/comment-page-4#comment-244121 James_Smith Sat, 17 Apr 2010 13:50:43 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church#comment-244121 <p>Things like this simply show the inconsistencies and illogical teachings of the bible and other religions. Is it any mystery why religion is so inconsistent and illogical.<br><br>Every religion and sect cherry picks" the text from their "holy books" so it teaches what they already want to hear. <br><br>Yes, all religions are arrant BS.</p> Things like this simply show the inconsistencies and illogical teachings of the bible and other religions. Is it any mystery why religion is so inconsistent and illogical.

Every religion and sect cherry picks” the text from their “holy books” so it teaches what they already want to hear.

Yes, all religions are arrant BS.

]]> By: Discordia http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church/comment-page-3#comment-244115 Discordia Wed, 14 Apr 2010 02:14:17 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church#comment-244115 <p>How very loving and forgiving of your god to do so.</p> How very loving and forgiving of your god to do so.

]]> By: Kaeman http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church/comment-page-3#comment-244065 Kaeman Sun, 04 Apr 2010 07:02:50 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church#comment-244065 <p>The God in the bible doesn't exist, No one can be that big an asshole. If there is a God, it is way beyond the one portrayed in the bible!</p> The God in the bible doesn't exist, No one can be that big an asshole. If there is a God, it is way beyond the one portrayed in the bible!

]]> By: Gloria http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church/comment-page-3#comment-243769 Gloria Thu, 31 Dec 2009 15:19:32 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church#comment-243769 <p>Which Church have you attended? I heard (and read) these quotes many times.<br>What is your point? My LORD is not a broken king. He will trample His enemy under His heel</p> Which Church have you attended? I heard (and read) these quotes many times.
What is your point? My LORD is not a broken king. He will trample His enemy under His heel

]]> By: Lawrie http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church/comment-page-3#comment-243606 Lawrie Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:34:20 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church#comment-243606 <p>Daniel, <br>What do you gain if the Bible or Christianity be proved false? <br><br>Interesting, you presumed I am not a Christian simply because I was articulate and respectful of you. This doesn’t offend me. Does it demonstrate you may have some very deep prejudices affecting your core belief system? Did you carefully read my reply to your article? Do you accept that perhaps you could be wrong?<br>I appreciate your appreciation of my reply, but I wonder if there is really any room for discussion. (?)<br><br>So, shame on you Daniel for your assumption? Shame on you for what appears to be an unwillingness to seek to gain real understanding of the scripture you malign? Hmmm we shall see. <br><br>Actually, I am a believer and follower of the living God. I absolutely believe Jesus Christ is fully God and was both fully God and man while he walked this earth. I believe God is both righteous judge and loving father. I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God and it may be trusted as stated in 2 Timothy 3:16 “All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness”. Does that surprise you? <br><br>That being said…..yes, I have found people are generally ignorant their own foundational beliefs and also of language and history. Unfortunately, people tend to do exactly what you do, which is to misquote scripture for their own purposes. Perhaps their intentions are in earnest but the result is always the same, a twisting of truth. I don’t think that is isolated to Christians. <br><br>The reality is becoming a Christian does not magically remove all flaw-this isn’t CandyLand. Rather Paul describes Christianity as a marathon race, we continually move toward the goal of following our master to become more like Him. In CS Lewis’ book Mere Christianity, Ch 32 “Nice people or New men” he presents an answer to his own question, “If Christianity is true why are not all Christians obviously nicer than all non-Christians?” his conclusion is complex but well worth reading. I won’t spoil the ending for you. Just remember, the British have been stereotyped in the past for having bad teeth. <br><br>Sadly, some people do resort to anger and name-calling instead of properly defending their beliefs. Some, perceiving their ideals under unjust attack, may choose to punch (figuratively) their attacker in the nose for his opinion. Consider their opponent so absurd, reckless, socially or intellectually inferior as to be beneath them and simply talk about them. Respond to what is perceived of as an outrageous effort to gain attention and offer a contemptuous or demeaning blow to curb the tongue (i.e. whack a dog on the nose to stop his barking). Or perhaps, disdainful, offer no reply at all … complete disregard. “Bad press is better than none”, is the saying. Say….at least you know you’re being read.  <br><br>Do you disagree with the way God handled situations in this book or what God considers sin? <br><br>In terms of exercising control over the freedom, will, or thought of others; God offers us the ultimate free will. The bible clearly states that not only are we set free, but we are never to lord-it over others. <br><br>You say your aim is to prove the Bible is totalitarian and negative and that requires no spin. I can accept you believe that, however, I clearly disagree. The Bible is full of the harsh realities of life, no sugarplums and gumdrops there….God clearly defines the consequences of our choices but in no way insists that we obey Him-He didn’t even insist that the angels choose Him. He offers two choices…choose Him and you get to be with Him for all eternity –Heaven. Don’t choose him and you get to be away from Him for all eternity- Hell. Is it that you want a third choice….i.e. Do what you want the way you want it, then reap the rewards of those who did obey…..That’s a bit narcissistic. <br><br>I guess I wonder: <br>1. Are your words designed to justify your own lifestyle? <br>2. Did someone use this book to injure you? <br>3. Why is it so important to you that others reject this book? <br>And finally, <br>4. If your arguments are not based upon fact, (meaning, you are misinterpreting scripture based upon wrong belief on your part), are you willing to reexamine this book?</p> Daniel,
What do you gain if the Bible or Christianity be proved false?

Interesting, you presumed I am not a Christian simply because I was articulate and respectful of you. This doesn’t offend me. Does it demonstrate you may have some very deep prejudices affecting your core belief system? Did you carefully read my reply to your article? Do you accept that perhaps you could be wrong?
I appreciate your appreciation of my reply, but I wonder if there is really any room for discussion. (?)

So, shame on you Daniel for your assumption? Shame on you for what appears to be an unwillingness to seek to gain real understanding of the scripture you malign? Hmmm we shall see.

Actually, I am a believer and follower of the living God. I absolutely believe Jesus Christ is fully God and was both fully God and man while he walked this earth. I believe God is both righteous judge and loving father. I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God and it may be trusted as stated in 2 Timothy 3:16 “All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness”. Does that surprise you?

That being said…..yes, I have found people are generally ignorant their own foundational beliefs and also of language and history. Unfortunately, people tend to do exactly what you do, which is to misquote scripture for their own purposes. Perhaps their intentions are in earnest but the result is always the same, a twisting of truth. I don’t think that is isolated to Christians.

The reality is becoming a Christian does not magically remove all flaw-this isn’t CandyLand. Rather Paul describes Christianity as a marathon race, we continually move toward the goal of following our master to become more like Him. In CS Lewis’ book Mere Christianity, Ch 32 “Nice people or New men” he presents an answer to his own question, “If Christianity is true why are not all Christians obviously nicer than all non-Christians?” his conclusion is complex but well worth reading. I won’t spoil the ending for you. Just remember, the British have been stereotyped in the past for having bad teeth.

Sadly, some people do resort to anger and name-calling instead of properly defending their beliefs. Some, perceiving their ideals under unjust attack, may choose to punch (figuratively) their attacker in the nose for his opinion. Consider their opponent so absurd, reckless, socially or intellectually inferior as to be beneath them and simply talk about them. Respond to what is perceived of as an outrageous effort to gain attention and offer a contemptuous or demeaning blow to curb the tongue (i.e. whack a dog on the nose to stop his barking). Or perhaps, disdainful, offer no reply at all … complete disregard. “Bad press is better than none”, is the saying. Say….at least you know you’re being read. 

Do you disagree with the way God handled situations in this book or what God considers sin?

In terms of exercising control over the freedom, will, or thought of others; God offers us the ultimate free will. The bible clearly states that not only are we set free, but we are never to lord-it over others.

You say your aim is to prove the Bible is totalitarian and negative and that requires no spin. I can accept you believe that, however, I clearly disagree. The Bible is full of the harsh realities of life, no sugarplums and gumdrops there….God clearly defines the consequences of our choices but in no way insists that we obey Him-He didn’t even insist that the angels choose Him. He offers two choices…choose Him and you get to be with Him for all eternity –Heaven. Don’t choose him and you get to be away from Him for all eternity- Hell. Is it that you want a third choice….i.e. Do what you want the way you want it, then reap the rewards of those who did obey…..That’s a bit narcissistic.

I guess I wonder:
1. Are your words designed to justify your own lifestyle?
2. Did someone use this book to injure you?
3. Why is it so important to you that others reject this book?
And finally,
4. If your arguments are not based upon fact, (meaning, you are misinterpreting scripture based upon wrong belief on your part), are you willing to reexamine this book?

]]> By: Daniel Miessler http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church/comment-page-3#comment-243574 Daniel Miessler Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:57:29 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church#comment-243574 <p>Thanks for the comment. Coents from belivers are much less articulate <br>and much more rude.<br><br>My goal is to show that the bible is totalitarian and negative rather <br>than what it's taught as. Nothing more than the truth. No need for spin.<br><br>Your own summary of the piece captured it nicely.</p> Thanks for the comment. Coents from belivers are much less articulate
and much more rude.

My goal is to show that the bible is totalitarian and negative rather
than what it's taught as. Nothing more than the truth. No need for spin.

Your own summary of the piece captured it nicely.

]]> By: Lawrie http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church/comment-page-3#comment-243572 Lawrie Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:10:55 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church#comment-243572 <p>Daniel,<BR>Regarding Luke 19:27. I don't believe you are crazy or stupid. I enjoy a good argument, but it must be a real argument, one for grownups and not fairytales for children. I enjoy your thought process, however its clear your agenda may not be deeper understanding of a complex God but rather proving your reasons for not obeying Him. Psalm 14:1 “The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God "They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good.” Ouch, God rarely pulls punches. <BR><BR>So, Daniel, why do you read the Bible at all? Is your point its dangerous, irrelevant, useless and must be exposed? Ok, I can accept that position. Or are you intentionally creating a straw-man argument, insisting verses means one thing then setting out to destroy those false ideas to promote a personal agenda. Hmm that sounds a bit more dark. <BR><BR>Do you understand Hermeneutics? Do you have a basic understanding of Jewish teaching and historic monarchy where a king literally held the power over life and death? A reader must understand a story’s cultural significance to its original hearers within the context of the writing and understanding of the time or interpretation is irrelevant and infantile. I don’t rewrite history and literature to make myself feel better…..do you? That would be arrogant, would it not?<BR><BR>You repeatedly take scripture out of context. Do you lack understanding of historical or cultural significance? What’s the significance of Jesus tying this parable directly to His interaction with Zacchaeus? What was happening right before the event in Luke 19:27? Bother to read that? Luke 19:11 starts “….because he (Jesus) was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once." And Jesus then goes on to admonish the Jews with the king’s harsh wrath for his enemies. Every bit of the lead-in has significance....do you know what that is? <BR><BR>The passage clearly demonstrates even the Jews were as guilty of petulantly insisting God bring salvation in a way they thought acceptable…Just as you and rest of us are (Gods says drunkenness, selfishness, lying, homosexuality and promiscuity are wrong….well, I disagree, so I will discredit the Bible or reinterpret His word to mean what I want it to mean). Rather then just admitting we're choosing a lifestyle in opposition to the living God and therefore choosing to separate ourselves from Him (i.e. choosing Hell). Because...well... if there is a God and He is the God of the Bible and we choose to disobey and walk away from Him, then crap! we are in deep trouble aren't we. <BR><BR>We all seek to usurp God’s authority and sovereign guidance in our lives….that is why He demands complete and total capitulation from us…We are at war with God in our hearts and the only way to gain entrance to His presence is for us to lay down our arms. God is already aware of our corrupt and abominable deeds, even those done in secret. Yet He strangely insists we acknowledge them before approaching His throne. Hmmm, why would He do that....that meanie!<BR><BR>Consider this as a point: As Jews, (beloved nation of God’s chosen people, set apart for the purpose of bringing about the salvation of the world through a Messiah sent by God), even they, could be considered enemies of God when they refused to accept Him/Jesus as their rightful king.<BR><BR>Basically the passage is God saying, "I don't care how right you think you are. When you insist on your will above mine...you're heading for trouble".</BR></BR></BR></BR></BR></BR></BR></BR></BR></BR></BR></BR></BR></BR></BR></p> Daniel,
Regarding Luke 19:27. I don't believe you are crazy or stupid. I enjoy a good argument, but it must be a real argument, one for grownups and not fairytales for children. I enjoy your thought process, however its clear your agenda may not be deeper understanding of a complex God but rather proving your reasons for not obeying Him. Psalm 14:1 “The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God “They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good.” Ouch, God rarely pulls punches.

So, Daniel, why do you read the Bible at all? Is your point its dangerous, irrelevant, useless and must be exposed? Ok, I can accept that position. Or are you intentionally creating a straw-man argument, insisting verses means one thing then setting out to destroy those false ideas to promote a personal agenda. Hmm that sounds a bit more dark.

Do you understand Hermeneutics? Do you have a basic understanding of Jewish teaching and historic monarchy where a king literally held the power over life and death? A reader must understand a story’s cultural significance to its original hearers within the context of the writing and understanding of the time or interpretation is irrelevant and infantile. I don’t rewrite history and literature to make myself feel better…..do you? That would be arrogant, would it not?

You repeatedly take scripture out of context. Do you lack understanding of historical or cultural significance? What’s the significance of Jesus tying this parable directly to His interaction with Zacchaeus? What was happening right before the event in Luke 19:27? Bother to read that? Luke 19:11 starts “….because he (Jesus) was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once.” And Jesus then goes on to admonish the Jews with the king’s harsh wrath for his enemies. Every bit of the lead-in has significance….do you know what that is?

The passage clearly demonstrates even the Jews were as guilty of petulantly insisting God bring salvation in a way they thought acceptable…Just as you and rest of us are (Gods says drunkenness, selfishness, lying, homosexuality and promiscuity are wrong….well, I disagree, so I will discredit the Bible or reinterpret His word to mean what I want it to mean). Rather then just admitting we're choosing a lifestyle in opposition to the living God and therefore choosing to separate ourselves from Him (i.e. choosing Hell). Because…well… if there is a God and He is the God of the Bible and we choose to disobey and walk away from Him, then crap! we are in deep trouble aren't we.

We all seek to usurp God’s authority and sovereign guidance in our lives….that is why He demands complete and total capitulation from us…We are at war with God in our hearts and the only way to gain entrance to His presence is for us to lay down our arms. God is already aware of our corrupt and abominable deeds, even those done in secret. Yet He strangely insists we acknowledge them before approaching His throne. Hmmm, why would He do that….that meanie!

Consider this as a point: As Jews, (beloved nation of God’s chosen people, set apart for the purpose of bringing about the salvation of the world through a Messiah sent by God), even they, could be considered enemies of God when they refused to accept Him/Jesus as their rightful king.

Basically the passage is God saying, “I don't care how right you think you are. When you insist on your will above mine…you're heading for trouble”.

]]> By: johnathanrdrake http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church/comment-page-3#comment-243568 johnathanrdrake Wed, 11 Nov 2009 02:37:01 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church#comment-243568 <p>You're wacked out...sorry to say...you find ONE passage where Jesus is speaking and he is saying what the ruler says to the wicked servant and you attribute evil to the heart of Jesus...that's why he put the scripture in their about "wresting the scriptures". read that sometime because you can "quote" him on that!</p> You're wacked out…sorry to say…you find ONE passage where Jesus is speaking and he is saying what the ruler says to the wicked servant and you attribute evil to the heart of Jesus…that's why he put the scripture in their about “wresting the scriptures”. read that sometime because you can “quote” him on that!

]]> By: Marty http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church/comment-page-3#comment-241858 Marty Mon, 11 May 2009 08:56:18 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church#comment-241858 <p>Your an idiot.<br><br>Luke 19:27 is a proverb; a parable. Its a story that illustrates a point.<br><br>Go back to Luke 19:11 and read forward to the end of Luke 19:27 to get the full context of the story.</p> Your an idiot.

Luke 19:27 is a proverb; a parable. Its a story that illustrates a point.

Go back to Luke 19:11 and read forward to the end of Luke 19:27 to get the full context of the story.

]]> By: Marty http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church/comment-page-3#comment-241644 Marty Mon, 11 May 2009 04:56:18 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/the-jesus-quote-youll-never-hear-in-church#comment-241644 <p>Your an idiot.<br><br>Luke 19:27 is a proverb; a parable. Its a story that illustrates a point.<br><br>Go back to Luke 19:11 and read forward to the end of Luke 19:27 to get the full context of the story.</p> Your an idiot.

Luke 19:27 is a proverb; a parable. Its a story that illustrates a point.

Go back to Luke 19:11 and read forward to the end of Luke 19:27 to get the full context of the story.

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