Comments on: The Highest Stage of Human Awareness http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-highest-stage-of-human-awareness grep understanding Fri, 25 May 2012 02:15:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Olivier Bruchez http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-highest-stage-of-human-awareness/comment-page-1#comment-258393 Olivier Bruchez Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:15:00 +0000 http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-highest-stage-of-human-awareness#comment-258393 <p>"There is, therefore, no objective good and evil. Heroes deserve no praise, and criminals deserve no punishment."</p> <p>I don't believe in free will, but I don't agree with the fact that heroes deserve no praise. Society can benefit from examples of good behavior. I agree that criminals deserve no punishment, though.</p> “There is, therefore, no objective good and evil. Heroes deserve no praise, and criminals deserve no punishment.”

I don’t believe in free will, but I don’t agree with the fact that heroes deserve no praise. Society can benefit from examples of good behavior. I agree that criminals deserve no punishment, though.

]]> By: CarlM http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-highest-stage-of-human-awareness/comment-page-1#comment-242529 CarlM Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:22:03 +0000 http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-highest-stage-of-human-awareness#comment-242529 <p>1: "There is no free will, as the seemingly complex goings-on of our lives are little more than pseudo-deterministic patterns being woven into time."<br><br>This isn't QUITE what the research into free will states at the moment. The research seems to show that free will isn't what we once thought it was, but it doesn't QUITE (yet?) show that it doesn't exist in any form. (I agree with Aarti on this.)<br><br>2. "There is, therefore, no objective good and evil. Heroes deserve no praise, and criminals deserve no punishment."<br><br>That doesn't follow. <br><br>I do not excuse myself for poor choices I have made in the past (like all the empty-but-delicious calories I have chosen to ingest), nor do I think society should excuse those who make poor choices. I say this EVEN in the hypothetical (and possible) case of this universe containing NO free will of any sort. As cooperati has said: "Even robots need programming." It may be that I am not free (or not entirely free) to choose my actions ... I eat fewer calories in an attempt to lose weight (or maintain my new lighter weight) because being at a healthier weight decreases the chances that I will later suffer from certain medical conditions (high blood pressure, diabetes, etc.) .. I don't want those conditions because they will decrease my quality of life (and my bank balance) .. so I "choose" to consume fewer calories. Maybe this isn't a choice. Maybe it's determined by the totality of facts in the universe. But, MAYBE consequences to actions are a necessary cog in the machinery.<br><br>The beauty of this is that from your point of view, there's no reason to try to correct any of us. :-D<br><br>3.4. If you mean by "meaning" the answer to the question "Why are we here" then I more or less agree. If instead you mean that there is no objective reality, then I think that you're wrong. 2+2=4 may be a human construct, but [when the terms are defined appropriately, and when this is applied in an appropriate context] it is an objective truth.<br><br><br>Carl</p> 1: “There is no free will, as the seemingly complex goings-on of our lives are little more than pseudo-deterministic patterns being woven into time.”

This isn't QUITE what the research into free will states at the moment. The research seems to show that free will isn't what we once thought it was, but it doesn't QUITE (yet?) show that it doesn't exist in any form. (I agree with Aarti on this.)

2. “There is, therefore, no objective good and evil. Heroes deserve no praise, and criminals deserve no punishment.”

That doesn't follow.

I do not excuse myself for poor choices I have made in the past (like all the empty-but-delicious calories I have chosen to ingest), nor do I think society should excuse those who make poor choices. I say this EVEN in the hypothetical (and possible) case of this universe containing NO free will of any sort. As cooperati has said: “Even robots need programming.” It may be that I am not free (or not entirely free) to choose my actions … I eat fewer calories in an attempt to lose weight (or maintain my new lighter weight) because being at a healthier weight decreases the chances that I will later suffer from certain medical conditions (high blood pressure, diabetes, etc.) .. I don't want those conditions because they will decrease my quality of life (and my bank balance) .. so I “choose” to consume fewer calories. Maybe this isn't a choice. Maybe it's determined by the totality of facts in the universe. But, MAYBE consequences to actions are a necessary cog in the machinery.

The beauty of this is that from your point of view, there's no reason to try to correct any of us. :-D

3.4. If you mean by “meaning” the answer to the question “Why are we here” then I more or less agree. If instead you mean that there is no objective reality, then I think that you're wrong. 2+2=4 may be a human construct, but [when the terms are defined appropriately, and when this is applied in an appropriate context] it is an objective truth.


Carl

]]> By: Jack David Baucum http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-highest-stage-of-human-awareness/comment-page-1#comment-242525 Jack David Baucum Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:44:12 +0000 http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-highest-stage-of-human-awareness#comment-242525 <p>Can you prove any of this?<br>Heroes do indeed deserve praise and criminals dealt with. We have been "programmed" to desire survival. Denying this inherent need doesn't do us any good. Accepting it and then using rational thinking to apply it to every day situations is healthy. Praising heroism encourages courageous acts, which is good for society. Ostracizing criminal behavior helps to discourage such acts. This is good for our society.<br>We are creatures of emotion. Denying that facts doesn't bring us towards any higher understanding.</p> Can you prove any of this?
Heroes do indeed deserve praise and criminals dealt with. We have been “programmed” to desire survival. Denying this inherent need doesn't do us any good. Accepting it and then using rational thinking to apply it to every day situations is healthy. Praising heroism encourages courageous acts, which is good for society. Ostracizing criminal behavior helps to discourage such acts. This is good for our society.
We are creatures of emotion. Denying that facts doesn't bring us towards any higher understanding.

]]> By: cooperati http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-highest-stage-of-human-awareness/comment-page-1#comment-242524 cooperati Thu, 02 Jul 2009 11:48:25 +0000 http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-highest-stage-of-human-awareness#comment-242524 <p>"There is, therefore, no objective good and evil. Heroes deserve no praise, and criminals deserve no punishment." <br><br>Even robots need programming.<br><br>-=T=-</p> “There is, therefore, no objective good and evil. Heroes deserve no praise, and criminals deserve no punishment.”

Even robots need programming.

-=T=-

]]> By: Aarti http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-highest-stage-of-human-awareness/comment-page-1#comment-242521 Aarti Thu, 02 Jul 2009 08:31:28 +0000 http://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-highest-stage-of-human-awareness#comment-242521 <p>Nice article. Pyramid implies that all lower stages be present to maintain a state of self actualization when only the physiological is an absolute and logical necessity. I have some thoughts on the free will aspect but suffice it to say that it is a simple term but needs a deeper definition beyond the colloquial.</p> Nice article. Pyramid implies that all lower stages be present to maintain a state of self actualization when only the physiological is an absolute and logical necessity. I have some thoughts on the free will aspect but suffice it to say that it is a simple term but needs a deeper definition beyond the colloquial.

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