The Frickin’ Balls on Israel

On Sep 24, 2007, at 4:25 PM, Arik wrote:

It's not the undigested opinions that matter to me; it's Daniel's constant attempts at using them to elicit responses from people. That's emotional manipulation. It's not - "here is what I think, what do you think?" - it's "this is the way it is, so there, in your face". Daniel has admitted in the past to using these tactics to elicit responses, and I just don't think it's fair.

Trying to illicit responses from people? I suppose that's true to some degree (I mean that's what all writers do), but not in the sense that I think you're stating it. I think what you're meaning is that I have no interest in discussion -- that all I am trying to do is run in make some outlandish statement, cause a ruckus, and then ignore what people say about it.

This is flatly wrong, and if you feel that way then you're either not paying close attention or I have a MAJOR disconnect in my presentation.

I assumed it was obvious that when you see emotion that I've written it's because I AM GENUINELY FEELING THAT EMOTION. I don't contrive things in order to play with people. I don't OVER emphasize the emotion in what I write in order to rile people up. That's not what I do.

What I'm trying to do is be emotive. I'm trying to convey my passion for these various topics. But it's not an attempt to shake people up so that we can proceed NOT to have a conversation. The ENTIRE purpose of all of this is to learn. But that has to start with me showing how I feel about things. Not just how I think about it, but how I feel about it.

Again, you're confusing this with being sure or closed on the issues. I'm not. I WANT to be shown different. Why? Because I want to know the actual truth of the matter. That's all I care about. I not only feel passionate about knowing the truth, but also about the fact that people don't seem to be paying attention. So when people ask my opinion on something I want to present the best possible opinion on the issue. Something that's been hashed to and fro by the best on all sides.

And that starts with HAVING a view and being willing to express it. I do so with a lot of force, which I think is fine and want to continue doing. What I want to STOP doing is being sloppy with my writing in terms of going off of poor information. But the emotional part is just part of how I write.

But let's be clear here: my intention is to illustrate MY emotion as a BEGINNING for a debate -- NOT to get someone else emotional in order to end END the debate. Honestly. This is truly the case.

Reading this post I was going in my mind - who does this guy think he is, an impromptu expert on international relations? - and then it dawned on me that this is yet another attempt at manipulation, so I abandoned my attempts at phrasing a proper response, and responded like I did. I then proceeded to unsubscribe from the RSS feed.

Manipulation? I just don't see it, Arik. I don't see what you're seeing.

I am voicing the opinion that the U.S. is lame and weak with respect to the relationship with Israel. I am voicing the opinion that Israel's intelligence agency has inroads into OUR affairs while we have little or none into theirs. I am saying that we are the inferior in the relationship and that this bothers me.

I was saying that the currency issue of asking for money from the U.S. to come in another form of currency could easily be taken as a sign of disrespect. I think we all agree that people deciding not to use the dollar is bad for the dollar. This can be seen from Iran's insistence on being paid in Euros for oil. That is an attack designed to further lessen the power of the currency.

All I was saying is that if Israel asks that the U.S. not give Israel U.S. dollars it constitutes the same sort of attack. It's making a concession that the U.S. currency IS failing, and proceeding to do nothing to help, but rather exacerbating the problem by rejecting the dollar as well.

That's the point.

The thoughts on our inferior position come from nearly 20 years of observation. Does that make it so? No, of course not. That's just my current view. I want someone to change my mind. I have these same debates with my Palestinian friend -- explaining why I think Israel is right do do x, or to do y when he says it's not.

ALL I CARE ABOUT IS MATCHING MY UNDERSTANDING TO REALITY

I seek people who can show me that reality. And when I write or debate, I am passionately putting MY CURRENT VIEW forward, waiting to be shown that it's not accurate. I embrace the fact that I may be wrong. It's happened many times before and will no doubt continue to happen.

But EVERY TIME I'M WRONG ABOUT SOMETHING MY VIEW OF THE WORLD IMPROVES.

This is my approach. This is why I write. I'm either going to teach or I'm going to learn, or something in between. It's nothing but positive to me, this dialogue. That's my position on my argument style.

---

As for the personal side, Arik, that's another matter.

I have offended you and I am deeply sorry for that. I apologize to you now, openly and freely. This was NOT my intention. I do not seek to emotionally manipulate or push people for the sake of it. This could not be farther from the truth.

As an Israeli, it kinda caught my eye having a huge Israeli flag in my blogroll. Then I read your post, and I got angry there for a few seconds. Yes, you hit a nerve in a subject I am emotional about. It's not the first time.

But I have put a stop to it, and unsubscribed from your feed. NOT because you're either pro or anti Israel or whatever. Hey, I can hold my own in a discussion about subjects I'm passionate about. It's because you're using (maybe unwittingly but I don't think so) the emotions of people reading your blog to elicit a response; and I had had enough of that.

Again, see above. I am NOT writing in order to make people emotional so that they'll comment. That's called trolling, and it means that discussion isn't even a point of interest. It means that the ONLY point of a post is the original post, and after that the poster just sits back and watches people freak out.

I don't do this. Again, see above.

I think you're coming to the conclusion that I have not learned anything because I continue to post in a forward and emotional way. To you this seems to mean that I don't want to discuss the topic -- hence you feel I'm not learning from your advice.

But that's just it. I AM open to discussion. I think about our moral relativism discussion often, and constantly recheck my own opinion on the matter.

Regarding the joke issue - I don't care that it was a joke.

Let's be clear -- I wasn't joking. The claim is that the original post about what Israel's spokesperson said was a joke. I still maintain my same position regarding how I would feel if Israel WERE to say what was said.

And I want to talk about it.

Joke or not, your way of having an argument is not to my liking; So, I can either cope or disengage. Is staying subscribed valuable enough for me to cope? I don't think so.

Again, I wasn't joking. I would never be that passionate and say such things in a joking manner. That would be...err, I don't know what it would be, but it wouldn't be my style.

I wasn't going to persist in persuading you to do otherwise, because my previous attempts have failed. I was going to just silently disappear. This very comment was caused only by your email. contemplated writing all that in a private message, but since the content of your email was simply "I responded to your comment" - I assumed you want to take it out in this public forum.

No, I didn't, but now that it's here I'm not going to delete it. I'll be writing you separately offline, however.

I just wanted to clarify my positions on these matters.

And just for the record, I most definitely do NOT want to see you go. You consistently challenge me on a number of issues, which I totally appreciate. I value your input greatly as it gives me a different perspective on things.

Perhaps I have done a better job above of describing why I write the way I do, and hopefully you'll see that the malicious intent that you seem to detect simply is not there. I truly hope that you reconsider your decision to leave.

Kind regards,

--

Daniel Miessler


E: Daniel@dmiessler.com


W: http://dmiessler.com
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