Comments on: Socialism, Anarchy and Ideal Government http://danielmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government grep understanding Sun, 29 Jan 2012 20:44:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: J. http://danielmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government/comment-page-1#comment-258147 J. Mon, 10 Oct 2011 22:27:00 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government#comment-258147 <p>They are both forms of government.  They seek to accomplish the same goals, negotiating a social contract between majorities and minorities.  They both pursue fairness.  They both value the independence of the individual and the power of concerted action. </p> <p>Anarchy can never be tyrannical, but socialism can.  There could be a socialist king or dictator, but never an anarchical king or dictator, at least not one who oppressed anyone, so it could only be an empty title. As soon as any of the tools of oppression were used it would cease to be anarchy.  Socialism uses some of the forms of oppression to accomplish it's goals, thus it can only be a transition stage, never a utopia. </p> <p>A lot of anarchy would look like socialism until you pulled back the veil to see that no one was being coerced in any way. </p> <p>If you aren't striving towards a utopia, I think it is a lot like being asleep. </p> They are both forms of government.  They seek to accomplish the same goals, negotiating a social contract between majorities and minorities.  They both pursue fairness.  They both value the independence of the individual and the power of concerted action. 

Anarchy can never be tyrannical, but socialism can.  There could be a socialist king or dictator, but never an anarchical king or dictator, at least not one who oppressed anyone, so it could only be an empty title. As soon as any of the tools of oppression were used it would cease to be anarchy.  Socialism uses some of the forms of oppression to accomplish it’s goals, thus it can only be a transition stage, never a utopia. 

A lot of anarchy would look like socialism until you pulled back the veil to see that no one was being coerced in any way. 

If you aren’t striving towards a utopia, I think it is a lot like being asleep. 

]]> By: J. http://danielmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government/comment-page-1#comment-258146 J. Mon, 10 Oct 2011 22:14:00 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government#comment-258146 <p> Being no more against universal voting rights as the masses are too easily swayed by propaganda, the most difficult decision is how to choose your oligarchy.  Right now it is still mostly inherited as the only big opportunities are available to those with huge genetic inheritances in the form of genes and trust funds.  The goal is to get the wisest, not the smartest or the most connected.  If a society however does not know its wisest people, it is always going to be lobotomized.  I think this is the real puzzle, not whether or not to restrict the excesses of private fortunes or strive towards symbiotic self rule.</p>  Being no more against universal voting rights as the masses are too easily swayed by propaganda, the most difficult decision is how to choose your oligarchy.  Right now it is still mostly inherited as the only big opportunities are available to those with huge genetic inheritances in the form of genes and trust funds.  The goal is to get the wisest, not the smartest or the most connected.  If a society however does not know its wisest people, it is always going to be lobotomized.  I think this is the real puzzle, not whether or not to restrict the excesses of private fortunes or strive towards symbiotic self rule.

]]> By: Edd http://danielmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government/comment-page-1#comment-257313 Edd Mon, 13 Jun 2011 18:26:00 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government#comment-257313 <p>today we've figure out the opposite, that is, that no human condition is predeterminate. The responsible for forming the condition is the enviroment where one is inserted.</p> today we’ve figure out the opposite, that is, that no human condition is predeterminate. The responsible for forming the condition is the enviroment where one is inserted.

]]> By: Tfulwood11 http://danielmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government/comment-page-1#comment-253966 Tfulwood11 Thu, 28 Oct 2010 03:36:00 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government#comment-253966 <p>How the terms Socialism and Anarchy became related By?</p> How the terms Socialism and Anarchy became related By?

]]> By: Youknowit http://danielmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government/comment-page-1#comment-245091 Youknowit Fri, 06 Aug 2010 20:56:50 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government#comment-245091 <p>Socialism is a means of control by taking from those that produce and giving to specific programs aka social engineering. It depends on moral values and goals but whose?</p> Socialism is a means of control by taking from those that produce and giving to specific programs aka social engineering. It depends on moral values and goals but whose?

]]> By: Daniel Miessler http://danielmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government/comment-page-1#comment-244404 Daniel Miessler Fri, 07 May 2010 01:55:08 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government#comment-244404 <p>Fair enough; I don't either. So all you do is stop when you reach the appropriate balance of centralized and decentralized control.</p> Fair enough; I don't either. So all you do is stop when you reach the appropriate balance of centralized and decentralized control.

]]> By: joe http://danielmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government/comment-page-1#comment-244403 joe Fri, 07 May 2010 01:52:52 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government#comment-244403 <p>unless, of course, you don't believe in anarchy.</p> unless, of course, you don't believe in anarchy.

]]> By: Daniel Miessler http://danielmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government/comment-page-1#comment-244173 Daniel Miessler Thu, 06 May 2010 20:55:08 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government#comment-244173 <p>Fair enough; I don't either. So all you do is stop when you reach the appropriate balance of centralized and decentralized control.</p> Fair enough; I don't either. So all you do is stop when you reach the appropriate balance of centralized and decentralized control.

]]> By: joe http://danielmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government/comment-page-1#comment-244172 joe Thu, 06 May 2010 20:52:52 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government#comment-244172 <p>unless, of course, you don't believe in anarchy.</p> unless, of course, you don't believe in anarchy.

]]> By: nico http://danielmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government/comment-page-1#comment-244155 nico Thu, 29 Apr 2010 06:17:39 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government#comment-244155 <p>anarchy is the opposite of socialism. and it smells worse. anyone i know that calls themselves an anarchist is failing on all these levels. so quick to jump to the end result! humans arent decent. starbucks is anarchy on a grand scale. you want to be stepping over even more bums and get stabbed for your shoes you can do it now! that anarchy exists every night in the city streets already. it does not work. period. treat everyone with the respect you deserve. smashing windows out of small businesses is naive and counters these 'ideals' sloppily scribbled (and misspelled) all over my neighborhood SMALL PRIVATELY OWNED BUSINESSES! i love the stupid 'vegan anarchy' graffiti too. really really fucking up the system. HUMANS WILL NEVER BE DECENT UNTIL THEY HAVE A REASON TO BE. if a kid has no hope of ever knowing what its like to own their own home they are so willing to stomp my flower beds every chance they get for the fuck of it.</p> anarchy is the opposite of socialism. and it smells worse. anyone i know that calls themselves an anarchist is failing on all these levels. so quick to jump to the end result! humans arent decent. starbucks is anarchy on a grand scale. you want to be stepping over even more bums and get stabbed for your shoes you can do it now! that anarchy exists every night in the city streets already. it does not work. period. treat everyone with the respect you deserve. smashing windows out of small businesses is naive and counters these 'ideals' sloppily scribbled (and misspelled) all over my neighborhood SMALL PRIVATELY OWNED BUSINESSES! i love the stupid 'vegan anarchy' graffiti too. really really fucking up the system. HUMANS WILL NEVER BE DECENT UNTIL THEY HAVE A REASON TO BE. if a kid has no hope of ever knowing what its like to own their own home they are so willing to stomp my flower beds every chance they get for the fuck of it.

]]> By: bob http://danielmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government/comment-page-1#comment-243707 bob Mon, 07 Dec 2009 18:12:24 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government#comment-243707 <p>LOL. epic FAIL</p> LOL. epic FAIL

]]> By: scooter123 http://danielmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government/comment-page-1#comment-243093 scooter123 Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:44:08 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government#comment-243093 <p>I think you are working with an extreme view of libertarianism. Most libertarians favor a government with a limited presence. Your use of the term libertarian here seem to indicate the need/want to abolish the government which really isn't the case. It's not that cut and dry.</p> I think you are working with an extreme view of libertarianism. Most libertarians favor a government with a limited presence. Your use of the term libertarian here seem to indicate the need/want to abolish the government which really isn't the case. It's not that cut and dry.

]]> By: Socialism as a Road to Libertarianism | danielmiessler.com http://danielmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government/comment-page-1#comment-243089 Socialism as a Road to Libertarianism | danielmiessler.com Fri, 21 Aug 2009 07:21:37 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government#comment-243089 <p>[...] My thoughts on socialism and libertarianism. [...]</p> [...] My thoughts on socialism and libertarianism. [...]

]]> By: John Monroe http://danielmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government/comment-page-1#comment-241849 John Monroe Mon, 25 May 2009 12:54:37 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government#comment-241849 <p>Ave, Miessler! Behold the little superman and his pals trying to lead us to true freedom. Trotsky said all of this before, and better, a hundred years ago. I mention Trotsky, and not the many many others, because he was my favorite atheist madman. Wild hair, pince-nez spectacles...</p> Ave, Miessler! Behold the little superman and his pals trying to lead us to true freedom. Trotsky said all of this before, and better, a hundred years ago. I mention Trotsky, and not the many many others, because he was my favorite atheist madman. Wild hair, pince-nez spectacles…

]]> By: Alan http://danielmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government/comment-page-1#comment-241803 Alan Tue, 12 May 2009 04:54:22 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government#comment-241803 <p>What you've written here is the most illogical and ill thought out piece of rubbish that I've read since the Old Testament. Socialism is maximization of the state, maximization of regulation, of the majority dictating to the individual, essentially of the tyranny of the majority OVER the individual. And socialism is NEVER going to give way to a reduction of the state; it will struggle to survive and grow even larger and more intrusive and more controlling. In what way will this lead to anarchy? Socialism and anarchy are antithetical. Those in power never relinquish power. Government always grows; it never shrinks. They are two opposite ends of the spectrum. Socialism and anarchy are only used in the same sentence by young kids who have never owned anything and resent anybody who has more than they do. They don't want rules or regulations for THEMSELVES, but to have a massive SOCIALIST STATE that takes from others and gives to them is okay. That is where the concept of socialist anarchy comes from. It's freedom for me, but not for anybody who has more than what I have. Get your head out of your ass!!!</p> What you've written here is the most illogical and ill thought out piece of rubbish that I've read since the Old Testament. Socialism is maximization of the state, maximization of regulation, of the majority dictating to the individual, essentially of the tyranny of the majority OVER the individual. And socialism is NEVER going to give way to a reduction of the state; it will struggle to survive and grow even larger and more intrusive and more controlling. In what way will this lead to anarchy? Socialism and anarchy are antithetical. Those in power never relinquish power. Government always grows; it never shrinks. They are two opposite ends of the spectrum. Socialism and anarchy are only used in the same sentence by young kids who have never owned anything and resent anybody who has more than they do. They don't want rules or regulations for THEMSELVES, but to have a massive SOCIALIST STATE that takes from others and gives to them is okay. That is where the concept of socialist anarchy comes from. It's freedom for me, but not for anybody who has more than what I have. Get your head out of your ass!!!

]]> By: Alan http://danielmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government/comment-page-1#comment-241649 Alan Tue, 12 May 2009 00:54:22 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government#comment-241649 <p>What you've written here is the most illogical and ill thought out piece of rubbish that I've read since the Old Testament. Socialism is maximization of the state, maximization of regulation, of the majority dictating to the individual, essentially of the tyranny of the majority OVER the individual. And socialism is NEVER going to give way to a reduction of the state; it will struggle to survive and grow even larger and more intrusive and more controlling. In what way will this lead to anarchy? Socialism and anarchy are antithetical. Those in power never relinquish power. Government always grows; it never shrinks. They are two opposite ends of the spectrum. Socialism and anarchy are only used in the same sentence by young kids who have never owned anything and resent anybody who has more than they do. They don't want rules or regulations for THEMSELVES, but to have a massive SOCIALIST STATE that takes from others and gives to them is okay. That is where the concept of socialist anarchy comes from. It's freedom for me, but not for anybody who has more than what I have. Get your head out of your ass!!!</p> What you've written here is the most illogical and ill thought out piece of rubbish that I've read since the Old Testament. Socialism is maximization of the state, maximization of regulation, of the majority dictating to the individual, essentially of the tyranny of the majority OVER the individual. And socialism is NEVER going to give way to a reduction of the state; it will struggle to survive and grow even larger and more intrusive and more controlling. In what way will this lead to anarchy? Socialism and anarchy are antithetical. Those in power never relinquish power. Government always grows; it never shrinks. They are two opposite ends of the spectrum. Socialism and anarchy are only used in the same sentence by young kids who have never owned anything and resent anybody who has more than they do. They don't want rules or regulations for THEMSELVES, but to have a massive SOCIALIST STATE that takes from others and gives to them is okay. That is where the concept of socialist anarchy comes from. It's freedom for me, but not for anybody who has more than what I have. Get your head out of your ass!!!

]]> By: Benjamin http://danielmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government/comment-page-1#comment-240695 Benjamin Thu, 19 Feb 2009 21:58:03 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government#comment-240695 <p>Daniel,<br><br>As I suggested in another comment, I have to disagree with you. Socialism has no place in any society. If you need proof of this, please look at the fall of the USSR. Remember that it stands for the Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics. All it ever did was plunder the people for the gain of a very small group. Not really that different from the feudal system. The only style of governement that will ever succeed in justice is Libertarianism from a Rights Theorist vantage point. <br><br>Government should not be in the business of wealth or power redistribution. The only function of government is for providing physical infrastructure for the society and protecting everyone's rights. Providing for the poor and down trodden is the work of charity. <br><br>The thing that bothers me the most about "free thinking" individuals is that they do not see the human want and need to help each other. Most people care about others. They even care about the goowill of those they do not even know. Where we have failed is in believing what the few loud-mouths are barking at us: "If you do not guard your heart, everything will be taken from you." The irony is those preaching this are the ones taking it.<br><br>My philosophy is to love others until they give you a reason not to trust them, then love them still but do not let them take your hope and joy. you will still have to guard your heart, but only from those who truthfully want to harm you. If this was everyone's goal, we would have no need for this discussion.</p> Daniel,

As I suggested in another comment, I have to disagree with you. Socialism has no place in any society. If you need proof of this, please look at the fall of the USSR. Remember that it stands for the Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics. All it ever did was plunder the people for the gain of a very small group. Not really that different from the feudal system. The only style of governement that will ever succeed in justice is Libertarianism from a Rights Theorist vantage point.

Government should not be in the business of wealth or power redistribution. The only function of government is for providing physical infrastructure for the society and protecting everyone's rights. Providing for the poor and down trodden is the work of charity.

The thing that bothers me the most about “free thinking” individuals is that they do not see the human want and need to help each other. Most people care about others. They even care about the goowill of those they do not even know. Where we have failed is in believing what the few loud-mouths are barking at us: “If you do not guard your heart, everything will be taken from you.” The irony is those preaching this are the ones taking it.

My philosophy is to love others until they give you a reason not to trust them, then love them still but do not let them take your hope and joy. you will still have to guard your heart, but only from those who truthfully want to harm you. If this was everyone's goal, we would have no need for this discussion.

]]> By: Jeffrey Rainer http://danielmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government/comment-page-1#comment-240661 Jeffrey Rainer Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:42:08 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government#comment-240661 <p>the article is awsome</p> the article is awsome

]]> By: Jose C Davda http://danielmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government/comment-page-1#comment-240604 Jose C Davda Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:30:09 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government#comment-240604 <p>your blog is really great! 587</p> your blog is really great! 587

]]> By: Obama’s New Plan? | dmiessler.com http://danielmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government/comment-page-1#comment-224298 Obama’s New Plan? | dmiessler.com Sat, 08 Nov 2008 15:29:40 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/socialism-anarchy-and-ideal-government#comment-224298 <p>[...] it goes back to my comments on Socialism, Libertarianism, and ideal government. This type of program is necessary to get to where we need to be, i.e. more libertarian. [...]</p> [...] it goes back to my comments on Socialism, Libertarianism, and ideal government. This type of program is necessary to get to where we need to be, i.e. more libertarian. [...]

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