Comments on: Meaning is an Illusion http://danielmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion grep understanding Fri, 25 May 2012 02:15:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Daniel Miessler http://danielmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion/comment-page-1#comment-258207 Daniel Miessler Wed, 19 Oct 2011 17:35:00 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion#comment-258207 <p>Let's spin up an email conversation.</p> Let’s spin up an email conversation.

]]> By: Dave Lemke http://danielmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion/comment-page-1#comment-258204 Dave Lemke Wed, 19 Oct 2011 01:43:00 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion#comment-258204 <p> Oh, I only mentioned The Moral Landscape because you listed it as one of your favorite books.</p>  Oh, I only mentioned The Moral Landscape because you listed it as one of your favorite books.

]]> By: Dave Lemke http://danielmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion/comment-page-1#comment-258203 Dave Lemke Wed, 19 Oct 2011 01:31:00 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion#comment-258203 <p>So why care about other people's suffering if meaning is utterly arbitrary?  Why not prioritize your own suffering since it feels more real?  Why not put in the least amount of effort possible in life (unless you were conditioned to be a high-achiever and that feels right)?  I don't see why it would make sense to bother conditioning yourself to like helping others.  I mean, perhaps the argument could be that in the long term, you are probably better off if you generally are nice to others.  However, you don't have to go that far out of your way to make friends.  You don't have to consider future generations or starving children in other countries to generally help yourself out by getting some people on your side.  I mean why would it be more important to make one meaning over another meaning in such a case?  Also, what you say here goes against what Sam Harris argues in The Moral Landscape.  He states something along the lines that if you could show that if brain states one might associate with flourishing are not correlated with states of the world, then his thesis would have major problems.  I think you are basically saying that here.  So, preventing the greatest suffering for everyone might not matter in the case you present if such an implausible scenario were to happen.  If you managed to get yourself in a fantasy land and stimulated your pleasure centers in the process, then preventing the worst suffering wouldn't necessarily matter... at least not the suffering of everyone else.  Any responses to these ideas?</p> So why care about other people’s suffering if meaning is utterly arbitrary?  Why not prioritize your own suffering since it feels more real?  Why not put in the least amount of effort possible in life (unless you were conditioned to be a high-achiever and that feels right)?  I don’t see why it would make sense to bother conditioning yourself to like helping others.  I mean, perhaps the argument could be that in the long term, you are probably better off if you generally are nice to others.  However, you don’t have to go that far out of your way to make friends.  You don’t have to consider future generations or starving children in other countries to generally help yourself out by getting some people on your side.  I mean why would it be more important to make one meaning over another meaning in such a case?  Also, what you say here goes against what Sam Harris argues in The Moral Landscape.  He states something along the lines that if you could show that if brain states one might associate with flourishing are not correlated with states of the world, then his thesis would have major problems.  I think you are basically saying that here.  So, preventing the greatest suffering for everyone might not matter in the case you present if such an implausible scenario were to happen.  If you managed to get yourself in a fantasy land and stimulated your pleasure centers in the process, then preventing the worst suffering wouldn’t necessarily matter… at least not the suffering of everyone else.  Any responses to these ideas?

]]> By: Jason Tokuda http://danielmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion/comment-page-1#comment-258189 Jason Tokuda Mon, 17 Oct 2011 13:45:00 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion#comment-258189 <p>All squirts may produce the same immediate effects, but the after effects they causes are different. Eating lots of junk food may feel good for a while, but it is later followed by poor health and feelings of crapiness. </p> All squirts may produce the same immediate effects, but the after effects they causes are different. Eating lots of junk food may feel good for a while, but it is later followed by poor health and feelings of crapiness. 

]]> By: Gomee Zheng http://danielmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion/comment-page-1#comment-257791 Gomee Zheng Wed, 17 Aug 2011 09:29:00 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion#comment-257791 <p>but our media usually gives so much attention to the athletes,</p> <p>singers and actresses who deserve recognition, but it’s nice</p> <p>to see a balance. Thank you</p> <p>http://www.pumafootwearsale.com</p> but our media usually gives so much attention to the athletes,

singers and actresses who deserve recognition, but it’s nice

to see a balance. Thank you

http://www.pumafootwearsale.com

]]> By: Gęś http://danielmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion/comment-page-1#comment-256203 Gęś Fri, 20 May 2011 18:23:33 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion#comment-256203 <p>:)</p> <p>Good read. I'm thankful that there is Internet to read such things on.</p> <p>I initially wanted to argue that there are types of intellectual/philosophical activities that aren't serving your own good, but that's an illusion too. Unless they are a just sign of a mental illness, and it is just your brain racing without your own will/consent.</p> <p>Too bad that even if you wanted to become insane in order to make yourself a person totally disconnected from reality, and thus no longer consciously wanting anything for yourself, to "cheat the system", it would still be egoistic. This is because it would be grounded in the (illusory) hope that "not wanting anything for yourself" (i.e., being atruisting) is somehow correlated to being intellectually inclined (which is a desirable trait). Just as if altruism, however achieved, could make anyone smarter. :)</p> <p>The "meaning of meaning" is also an interesting problem. If the concept of "meaning" an "illusion" too, then I wonder what makes science possible...</p> :)

Good read. I’m thankful that there is Internet to read such things on.

I initially wanted to argue that there are types of intellectual/philosophical activities that aren’t serving your own good, but that’s an illusion too. Unless they are a just sign of a mental illness, and it is just your brain racing without your own will/consent.

Too bad that even if you wanted to become insane in order to make yourself a person totally disconnected from reality, and thus no longer consciously wanting anything for yourself, to “cheat the system”, it would still be egoistic. This is because it would be grounded in the (illusory) hope that “not wanting anything for yourself” (i.e., being atruisting) is somehow correlated to being intellectually inclined (which is a desirable trait). Just as if altruism, however achieved, could make anyone smarter. :)

The “meaning of meaning” is also an interesting problem. If the concept of “meaning” an “illusion” too, then I wonder what makes science possible…

]]> By: ackmaic6 http://danielmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion/comment-page-1#comment-255000 ackmaic6 Wed, 20 Apr 2011 08:28:00 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion#comment-255000 <p>But happiness is suffering. It causes sadness.</p> But happiness is suffering. It causes sadness.

]]> By: Indiana Jones http://danielmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion/comment-page-1#comment-244933 Indiana Jones Wed, 14 Jul 2010 02:34:52 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion#comment-244933 <p>The fact that our thoughts are essential chemical reactions, closes the book with the conclusion that we can't grasp the question - and even if we could the anwser would always be a product of a chemical proces - and is that truth?</p> The fact that our thoughts are essential chemical reactions, closes the book with the conclusion that we can't grasp the question – and even if we could the anwser would always be a product of a chemical proces – and is that truth?

]]> By: wsriley http://danielmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion/comment-page-1#comment-244426 wsriley Sun, 09 May 2010 03:46:55 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion#comment-244426 <p>Oddly enough the extension is exactly right - been there done that is something we all will hear a million times again for obvious reasons:) Rhyme and reason come from deduction - invariably we are lucky the universe is recursive and self-aware - but recursive and self-aware it is:) The next century is going to be a very interesting one;)</p> Oddly enough the extension is exactly right – been there done that is something we all will hear a million times again for obvious reasons:) Rhyme and reason come from deduction – invariably we are lucky the universe is recursive and self-aware – but recursive and self-aware it is:) The next century is going to be a very interesting one;)

]]> By: wsriley http://danielmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion/comment-page-1#comment-244425 wsriley Sun, 09 May 2010 03:41:19 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion#comment-244425 <p>Ah square one - I remember the days:) A simulation is as real as it feels. Reality is as solid as the Qualia it delivers. You are a brain in a box. You exist in the physical world. Your brain paints frames onto this based on it's own objectives. You believe this is real. That is the nature of sentience. There are reasons why this knowledge is only surfacing now of course;) Really good reasons - patience is a virtue even when it seems like a painful one.</p> Ah square one – I remember the days:) A simulation is as real as it feels. Reality is as solid as the Qualia it delivers. You are a brain in a box. You exist in the physical world. Your brain paints frames onto this based on it's own objectives. You believe this is real. That is the nature of sentience. There are reasons why this knowledge is only surfacing now of course;) Really good reasons – patience is a virtue even when it seems like a painful one.

]]> By: wsriley http://danielmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion/comment-page-1#comment-244179 wsriley Sat, 08 May 2010 22:46:55 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion#comment-244179 <p>Oddly enough the extension is exactly right - been there done that is something we all will hear a million times again for obvious reasons:) Rhyme and reason come from deduction - invariably we are lucky the universe is recursive and self-aware - but recursive and self-aware it is:) The next century is going to be a very interesting one;)</p> Oddly enough the extension is exactly right – been there done that is something we all will hear a million times again for obvious reasons:) Rhyme and reason come from deduction – invariably we are lucky the universe is recursive and self-aware – but recursive and self-aware it is:) The next century is going to be a very interesting one;)

]]> By: wsriley http://danielmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion/comment-page-1#comment-244178 wsriley Sat, 08 May 2010 22:41:19 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion#comment-244178 <p>Ah square one - I remember the days:) A simulation is as real as it feels. Reality is as solid as the Qualia it delivers. You are a brain in a box. You exist in the physical world. Your brain paints frames onto this based on it's own objectives. You believe this is real. That is the nature of sentience. There are reasons why this knowledge is only surfacing now of course;) Really good reasons - patience is a virtue even when it seems like a painful one.</p> Ah square one – I remember the days:) A simulation is as real as it feels. Reality is as solid as the Qualia it delivers. You are a brain in a box. You exist in the physical world. Your brain paints frames onto this based on it's own objectives. You believe this is real. That is the nature of sentience. There are reasons why this knowledge is only surfacing now of course;) Really good reasons – patience is a virtue even when it seems like a painful one.

]]> By: links for 2010-05-03 « memor.ia blog http://danielmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion/comment-page-1#comment-244168 links for 2010-05-03 « memor.ia blog Tue, 04 May 2010 04:01:19 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion#comment-244168 <p>[...] Meaning is an Illusion | danielmiessler.com (tags: toread) [...]</p> [...] Meaning is an Illusion | danielmiessler.com (tags: toread) [...]

]]> By: johnny http://danielmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion/comment-page-1#comment-244166 johnny Tue, 04 May 2010 00:04:32 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion#comment-244166 <p>welcome to the party pal</p> welcome to the party pal

]]> By: bh http://danielmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion/comment-page-1#comment-244164 bh Mon, 03 May 2010 22:47:34 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion#comment-244164 <p>I love you. Our views are nearly identical, and I've chosen #3 as well.<br><br>I'm not totally clear if you accepted this in your 'implications' sections, but the next step from this is the realization that nothing matters: it's all pointless - Nihilism.</p> I love you. Our views are nearly identical, and I've chosen #3 as well.

I'm not totally clear if you accepted this in your 'implications' sections, but the next step from this is the realization that nothing matters: it's all pointless – Nihilism.

]]> By: Extracting Meaning from Emptiness | danielmiessler.com http://danielmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion/comment-page-1#comment-243072 Extracting Meaning from Emptiness | danielmiessler.com Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:32:47 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion#comment-243072 <p>[...] saw this quote on Reddit recently, and it resonnated with me. It reminded me of my thoughts on meaning, which basically conclude that meaning is not real, but that pleasure, happiness, and beauty are [...]</p> [...] saw this quote on Reddit recently, and it resonnated with me. It reminded me of my thoughts on meaning, which basically conclude that meaning is not real, but that pleasure, happiness, and beauty are [...]

]]> By: Justin http://danielmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion/comment-page-1#comment-243062 Justin Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:00:53 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion#comment-243062 <p>Yes, I've had that same thought. It may be a variable, however I would think that it provides slightly more freedom or at least more power than having total ignorance of the truth of the situation. For instance, if you are driving down a street in the dark with no headlights, you would more likely strike something in the road than having illuminated your path. <br><br>The vary act of becoming aware creates new variables that would otherwise not exist in your life path. Of course the circular nature of logic would lead you to believe that the path itself led you to the enlightenment in the first place, but the variance of this view point depends upon where in the circle you are looking. Both viewpoints can be true since the logic is circular. <br><br>As far as the music, yes I made it. Its gone now actually, but there's a lot more in there and its organized better now. If you're into. Thanks for checking it out. :)</p> Yes, I've had that same thought. It may be a variable, however I would think that it provides slightly more freedom or at least more power than having total ignorance of the truth of the situation. For instance, if you are driving down a street in the dark with no headlights, you would more likely strike something in the road than having illuminated your path.

The vary act of becoming aware creates new variables that would otherwise not exist in your life path. Of course the circular nature of logic would lead you to believe that the path itself led you to the enlightenment in the first place, but the variance of this view point depends upon where in the circle you are looking. Both viewpoints can be true since the logic is circular.

As far as the music, yes I made it. Its gone now actually, but there's a lot more in there and its organized better now. If you're into. Thanks for checking it out. :)

]]> By: Justin http://danielmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion/comment-page-1#comment-243061 Justin Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:00:31 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion#comment-243061 <p>Yes, I've had that same thought. It may be a variable, however I would think that it provides slightly more freedom or at least more power than having total ignorance of the truth of the situation. For instance, if you are driving down a street in the dark with no headlights, you would more likely strike something in the road than having illuminated your path. <br><br>The vary act of becoming aware creates new variables that would otherwise not exist in your life path. Of course the circular nature of logic would lead you to believe that the path itself led you to the enlightenment in the first place, but the variance of this view point depends upon where in the circle you are looking. Both viewpoints can be true since the logic is circular. <br><br>As far as the music, yes I made it. Its gone now actually, but there's a lot more in there and its organized better now. If you're into. Thanks for checking it out. :)</p> Yes, I've had that same thought. It may be a variable, however I would think that it provides slightly more freedom or at least more power than having total ignorance of the truth of the situation. For instance, if you are driving down a street in the dark with no headlights, you would more likely strike something in the road than having illuminated your path.

The vary act of becoming aware creates new variables that would otherwise not exist in your life path. Of course the circular nature of logic would lead you to believe that the path itself led you to the enlightenment in the first place, but the variance of this view point depends upon where in the circle you are looking. Both viewpoints can be true since the logic is circular.

As far as the music, yes I made it. Its gone now actually, but there's a lot more in there and its organized better now. If you're into. Thanks for checking it out. :)

]]> By: Justin http://danielmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion/comment-page-1#comment-243060 Justin Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:00:09 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion#comment-243060 <p>Yes, I've had that same thought. It may be a variable, however I would think that it provides slightly more freedom or at least more power than having total ignorance of the truth of the situation. For instance, if you are driving down a street in the dark with no headlights, you would more likely strike something in the road than having illuminated your path. <br><br>The vary act of becoming aware creates new variables that would otherwise not exist in your life path. Of course the circular nature of logic would lead you to believe that the path itself led you to the enlightenment in the first place, but the variance of this view point depends upon where in the circle you are looking. Both viewpoints can be true since the logic is circular. <br><br>As far as the music, yes I made it. Its gone now actually, but there's a lot more in there and its organized better now. If you're into. Thanks for checking it out. :)</p> Yes, I've had that same thought. It may be a variable, however I would think that it provides slightly more freedom or at least more power than having total ignorance of the truth of the situation. For instance, if you are driving down a street in the dark with no headlights, you would more likely strike something in the road than having illuminated your path.

The vary act of becoming aware creates new variables that would otherwise not exist in your life path. Of course the circular nature of logic would lead you to believe that the path itself led you to the enlightenment in the first place, but the variance of this view point depends upon where in the circle you are looking. Both viewpoints can be true since the logic is circular.

As far as the music, yes I made it. Its gone now actually, but there's a lot more in there and its organized better now. If you're into. Thanks for checking it out. :)

]]> By: Daniel Miessler http://danielmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion/comment-page-1#comment-242539 Daniel Miessler Fri, 03 Jul 2009 21:48:15 +0000 http://dmiessler.com/blog/meaning-is-an-illusion#comment-242539 <p>Thanks for the kind words, Justin.<br><br>So I would argue that the knowledge that our outcomes are the product of a series of variables is simply another variable, but not one that exists outside of the system.</p> Thanks for the kind words, Justin.

So I would argue that the knowledge that our outcomes are the product of a series of variables is simply another variable, but not one that exists outside of the system.

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