Free Will and Punishment

By Daniel Miessler on January 6th, 2010: Tagged as Culture | Philosophy | Politics | Religion
  • scooter

    As religion (in the US…Christianity) has been in a decline since 1990 your analysis would seem to lead to the fact that the US should be experiencing a general decline in violent crime. However the opposite is true. As religion declines the number of violent crimes and types of violent crimes has increased. I believe this isn’t related solely to religion. I believe that the value system of the people in the US has changed dramatically and that is the reason for many of the observations you have made. At the head of this list is personal responsibility or lack of it. These same religious issues existed in years past but the value system of the population as a whole was different. The failure of our government to recognize true need from laziness and fraud when it comes to our social security system has led to a sense of entitlement across all levels of the population. The poor feel they deserve something for nothing, the middle class feel they are burdened with all the work and now feel the right to “cheat the system” to get ahead and the rich are so out of touch with the true issues at hand that they don’t even recognize there is a problem. The key to changing society isn’t pushing religion out the door, it’s changing and educated people attitudes toward their perception of the role they play. The only way to do that is to find a way to bring back personal responsibility. I think you are using religion as a scapegoat for the problems of the society when it’s only a minor contributing factor at some levels.

  • CarlM

    Quick response:

    * Religion –> a belief in supernatural Free Will
    .. Sometimes true.

    * Free Will –> the belief that criminals deserve suffering
    .. Sometimes true, perhaps … but most people believe in free will — including MANY who believe in rehabilitation and VERY MANY who do not believe that people deserve suffering.

    * Secular –> Less/No Religion
    * Less/No Religion –> Less/No belief in supernatural Free Will
    .. in SUPERNATURAL FREE WILL .. yes .. well … sure.

    * Less/No belief in Free Will –> more belief in determinism
    .. true by definition.

    * Belief in determinism –> belief that the prosperous are lucky instead of virtuous, and that the poor and criminal are unlucky instead of evil or lazy
    .. WOW, you weren't kidding about oversimplifying.

    * This leads to a desire to elevate the variables for everyone, so that the better inputs will lead to better outputs
    .. This is something that MANY who believe in free will also believe.

  • CarlM

    It is true that the NUMBER of violent crimes has increased, but this is due to the rise in the population. The RATE of violent crimes (per 100,000 people) has decreased over that period.

    NOTE: I don't think this is evidence of anything to do with religion, but I wanted the facts to be correct.

    Here's a link to the data:

    http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

  • Bodhi

    Hey Daniel,

    Check out this book called “Papillon”. Its a best seller by Henri Charrière (his autobiography translated in English). It ruminates over the classic “rehabilitation vs punishment” idea. Try it!

  • Bodhi

    Hey Daniel,

    Check out this book called “Papillon”. Its a best seller by Henri Charrière (his autobiography translated in English). It ruminates over the classic “rehabilitation vs punishment” idea. Try it!


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